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Many Singers are Abandoning Smule. They need HELP


_RamKrish1012

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_RamKrish1012
4 hours ago, singhna said:

@ssmita had posted a message on this forum regarding a fraudster who is a verified singer but the post was deleted. 

I have provided multiple evidences of abuse on smule platform by this fraudster to smule support. Smule has not taken any action and instead chooses to freeze account of people who talk about him. @ssmita's post was deleted as well without informing her. This forum seems to be a waste of time for issues like this.

Assume Smule has checked and Verified this singer and want to make a hero of the man to draw more membership. so it is a commercial decision they want to defend . Who knows what Smule Policies are. Policing ios often difficult and they need to evaluate both sides of the story and this may not be possible when there are millions of members

 

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5 hours ago, _RamKrish1012 said:

Assume Smule has checked and Verified this singer and want to make a hero of the man to draw more membership. so it is a commercial decision they want to defend . Who knows what Smule Policies are. Policing ios often difficult and they need to evaluate both sides of the story and this may not be possible when there are millions of members

 

Maybe you are right about the commercial decision but this person is reported to the authorities with all the evidence. There is no justification for defending a fraudster like him especially so when he uses Smule platform to spread lies and make baseless allegations towards other users. 

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This forum seems to be a waste of time for issues like this.

Sing.Salon, like Smule, has its rules too, and one of them is that one cannot make accusations against other identifiable Smule users directly in our public forum. 

  1. Such accusations could make me liable. This website is just a personal side project of mine and I have no reason to take such risks for matters that do not concern me. (I am liable enough as it is already. For example: I’ve already gotten into legal trouble when one user posted a Smule group here, where the name and logo violated trademark and copyright laws. And I was legally responsible for their actions as the owner/publisher. It’s the same for accusations and defamation laws.)
  2. As Sing.Salon has no connection to Smule, I am completely unable to check any evidence in the Smule system myself, nor is it even my job to do so. There is absolutely no reason to even get involved. But I also cannot let it play out and do nothing because of what was said under 1). 
  3. As Sing.Salon has no connection to Smule, I am completely unable to perform any actions as a result of a (hypothetical) investigation. It doesn’t even make sense to warn Smule users here of certain other users, since there are millions of Smule users and most posts here are usually just read by a couple hundred people at best. 

Anyone is free to talk about their Smule experience here in a general sense, as dozens have done so already in this topic. But yes, we will of course take actions against posts which violate our terms of service and if you are “getting silenced” everywhere, maybe you need to rethink your approach. Fraud is a matter for the police and the justice system – it will not get resolved in online forums and so there is no point in even trying to post accusations and potential evidence in such a place. And Smule issues need to be resolved with Smule. If none of that works, Sing.Salon has no obligation to jump in and be a platform for your issues. It’s totally understandable that if someone witnessed injustice or was even a victim of it, one might want to let everyone know about it, but that doesn’t justify all potential actions. I kindly ask to consider our side (as explained in this post) as well. 

Follow me on Smule: https://smule.com/opentype 

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_RamKrish1012
1 hour ago, singhna said:

Maybe you are right about the commercial decision but this person is reported to the authorities with all the evidence. There is no justification for defending a fraudster like him especially so when he uses Smule platform to spread lies and make baseless allegations towards other users. 

Sorry I was not justifying anything. Just making a statement on what might be happening 

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_RamKrish1012
1 hour ago, opentype said:

Sing.Salon, like Smule, has its rules too, and one of them is that one cannot make accusations against other identifiable Smule users directly in our public forum. 

  1. Such accusations could make me liable. This website is just a personal side project of mine and I have no reason to take such risks for matters that do not concern me. (I am liable enough as it is already. For example: I’ve already gotten into legal trouble when one user posted a Smule group here, where the name and logo violated trademark and copyright laws. And I was legally responsible for their actions as the owner/publisher. It’s the same for accusations and defamation laws.)
  2. As Sing.Salon has no connection to Smule, I am completely unable to check any evidence in the Smule system myself, nor is it even my job to do so. There is absolutely no reason to even get involved. But I also cannot let it play out and do nothing because of what was said under 1). 
  3. As Sing.Salon has no connection to Smule, I am completely unable to perform any actions as a result of a (hypothetical) investigation. It doesn’t even make sense to warn Smule users here of certain other users, since there are millions of Smule users and most posts here are usually just read by a couple hundred people at best. 

Anyone is free to talk about their Smule experience here in a general sense, as dozens have done so already in this topic. But yes, we will of course take actions against posts which violate our terms of service and if you are “getting silenced” everywhere, maybe you need to rethink your approach. Fraud is a matter for the police and the justice system – it will not get resolved in online forums and so there is no point in even trying to post accusations and potential evidence in such a place. And Smule issues need to be resolved with Smule. If none of that works, Sing.Salon has no obligation to jump in and be a platform for your issues. It’s totally understandable that if someone witnessed injustice or was even a victim of it, one might want to let everyone know about it, but that doesn’t justify all potential actions. I kindly ask to consider our side (as explained in this post) as well. 

In Total Agreement. Most people Mistake Sing Salon to be a Official Forum for Smue. Perhaps a Disclaimer in the Sing Salon Banner could Help Remove this Misunderstanding.

Having said that, I'd like to know why you spend so much of your time as well as take the unwarranted risks by Hosting this Sing Salon Forum ??? Just Curious Mate

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2 hours ago, opentype said:

Sing.Salon, like Smule, has its rules too, and one of them is that one cannot make accusations against other identifiable Smule users directly in our public forum. 

  1. Such accusations could make me liable. This website is just a personal side project of mine and I have no reason to take such risks for matters that do not concern me. (I am liable enough as it is already. For example: I’ve already gotten into legal trouble when one user posted a Smule group here, where the name and logo violated trademark and copyright laws. And I was legally responsible for their actions as the owner/publisher. It’s the same for accusations and defamation laws.)
  2. As Sing.Salon has no connection to Smule, I am completely unable to check any evidence in the Smule system myself, nor is it even my job to do so. There is absolutely no reason to even get involved. But I also cannot let it play out and do nothing because of what was said under 1). 
  3. As Sing.Salon has no connection to Smule, I am completely unable to perform any actions as a result of a (hypothetical) investigation. It doesn’t even make sense to warn Smule users here of certain other users, since there are millions of Smule users and most posts here are usually just read by a couple hundred people at best. 

Anyone is free to talk about their Smule experience here in a general sense, as dozens have done so already in this topic. But yes, we will of course take actions against posts which violate our terms of service and if you are “getting silenced” everywhere, maybe you need to rethink your approach. Fraud is a matter for the police and the justice system – it will not get resolved in online forums and so there is no point in even trying to post accusations and potential evidence in such a place. And Smule issues need to be resolved with Smule. If none of that works, Sing.Salon has no obligation to jump in and be a platform for your issues. It’s totally understandable that if someone witnessed injustice or was even a victim of it, one might want to let everyone know about it, but that doesn’t justify all potential actions. I kindly ask to consider our side (as explained in this post) as well. 

Thanks, I have already reported him to the police and provided them all the evidence.  

My case is a bit different in the sense that it was the verified artist who posted videos making false allegations about me and my family. There was absolutely nothing to prove. I provided Smule with all the evidences. His allegations were completely baseless and the sole purpose was to tarnish me and my family's image.

In spite of this my account was frozen when I tried to expose him in my response . @singhna's account was frozen as well.

He is still abusing the smule platform , creates fake id's to send extremely offensive messages. I have reported them to smule. Smule's response is that "we can't track fake id's" . I don't think it is true. They did not take any action when he had used his verified id for the same.

I raised the issue in this forum as I saw some 'hope' when I saw other users talking about similar experiences.

I am sorry I was not aware that this is not an official Smule forum and did not mean to get you in trouble at all.

 

 

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RockMeSlowly

Maybe only allow VIP users to duet with other VIPs?  I understand the need to pull new users, but something has to be done to protect those who take the app seriously.

If they insist on doing it this way, rather than having "joiners" be the way of thaking a large group, make it less transparent that it's a mass message.

___________________

I think the human nature to want to be the big fish in a small pond takes over in some cases and we forget why we joined the app to begin with. The obsession over clout pulls an artist away from other artists and more into the social media realm.  That's usually where harassment happens.

I think it would help if the overall strategy behind the app was re-evaluated.  The terms influencer/ trending loses all credibility when profiles created by marketing companies in the Philippines dominate. 

If they deleted fake profiles that artificially inflate people's numbers, it would help ease jealousy issues and lower the joins to a point where it's not overwhelming.

Which loops back to my original point. If only VIPs could duet and/or counted toward numbers, it would eliminate a lot of the problems people are having.

 

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RockMeSlowly
On 11/19/2019 at 5:24 AM, _RamKrish1012 said:

Not Allowing Non VIP Members to either Comment or Record in Video Mode is a Brilliant Suggestion assuming Non VIP members are the harassing crowd. Understandably correct as one has to be a fool to use his VIP ID to harass other Smule members.

In all fairness, Smule is a Mobile Phone app and have software developers and management addressing problems raised by Members and trying to find solutions. I doubt if Smule is Monitoring any thing that is going on amongst a million members.  

I think people are less likely to harass others if they're spending all this money each month on the app.  

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RockMeSlowly
On 6/2/2019 at 3:55 AM, opentype said:

I think it’s important to keep in mind that Smule has over 50 million active users and less than 200 employees. They can act on a case-by-case basis, e.g. regarding a specific offending video, profile pic, chat message or something similar which can be clearly demonstrated (e.g. through a screenshot). But apart from that, there is not much they can do and the users indeed have to rely on the features like blocking accounts, even if that means to repeat this process multiple times when users create new accounts. Smule cannot actively investigate and monitor individual trolls nor their victims. It’s just not feasible for any larger social online platform and I wouldn’t know any platform which has this kind of support. And when things cross into the territory of criminal cases, that needs to be handled by the police. 

There are a significant amount of fake profiles on this app from marketing companies to over-inflate the usage.

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2 hours ago, RockMeSlowly said:

Maybe only allow VIP users to duet with other VIPs?  I understand the need to pull new users, but something has to be done to protect those who take the app seriously.

If they insist on doing it this way, rather than having "joiners" be the way of thaking a large group, make it less transparent that it's a mass message.

___________________

I think the human nature to want to be the big fish in a small pond takes over in some cases and we forget why we joined the app to begin with. The obsession over clout pulls an artist away from other artists and more into the social media realm.  That's usually where harassment happens.

I think it would help if the overall strategy behind the app was re-evaluated.  The terms influencer/ trending loses all credibility when profiles created by marketing companies in the Philippines dominate. 

If they deleted fake profiles that artificially inflate people's numbers, it would help ease jealousy issues and lower the joins to a point where it's not overwhelming.

Which loops back to my original point. If only VIPs could duet and/or counted toward numbers, it would eliminate a lot of the problems people are having.

 

 

I am a VIP user and of the songs I open, if not for non VIP users, I would have almost no joins. That should be an option for each VIP user to toggle and not a mandatory feature. Same with the live jams. If the person opening doesn't want non VIPs or only people they follow, there should be some sort of toggle to eliminate traffic.

I agree with the non video feature for non VIPs. As for commenting, I have met several VIPs who are very chatty with non VIPs. VIPs help lure non VIPs to become VIPs. So that I think should also be a toggle. On whether non VIPs can comment on a VIP's material. 

Also Idk if it was in this thread or another but there was talk about limiting how many users one could follow / have as followers. There are many users who like to sing but like having the fan base, who would be upset by limiting that area. A solution to that would also be to give the user control over how many people that want to follow them, and the ability like with Instagram to remove followers, to where a removed user can no longer follow the user who removed them. 

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2 hours ago, RockMeSlowly said:

Maybe only allow VIP users to duet with other VIPs?  I understand the need to pull new users, but something has to be done to protect those who take the app seriously.

If they insist on doing it this way, rather than having "joiners" be the way of thaking a large group, make it less transparent that it's a mass message.

___________________

I think the human nature to want to be the big fish in a small pond takes over in some cases and we forget why we joined the app to begin with. The obsession over clout pulls an artist away from other artists and more into the social media realm.  That's usually where harassment happens.

I think it would help if the overall strategy behind the app was re-evaluated.  The terms influencer/ trending loses all credibility when profiles created by marketing companies in the Philippines dominate. 

If they deleted fake profiles that artificially inflate people's numbers, it would help ease jealousy issues and lower the joins to a point where it's not overwhelming.

Which loops back to my original point. If only VIPs could duet and/or counted toward numbers, it would eliminate a lot of the problems people are having.

 

 

Unfortunately, There are some users who join to get famous and to build a fan base, and then sing secondly. For those VIP users, if made mandatory, your suggestion would force them to use the app in ways they didn't attend to. Giving users the option to control if non VIP users can comment, message and join would be a better solution. (It stops smule from losing money by mandating.) It will still cause people to get VIP if they want to join people who have turned on those restrictions.

There are VIP users who treat smile as a business. I've come across several, mainly those from overseas who are trying to become recording stars.

Edited by yaunti
(Extra thought)
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2 hours ago, RockMeSlowly said:

There are a significant amount of fake profiles on this app from marketing companies to over-inflate the usage.

True and they've been ramping up their spamming lately. I have reported about a dozen accounts over the past week

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RockMeSlowly
2 hours ago, yaunti said:

I am a VIP user and of the songs I open, if not for non VIP users, I would have almost no joins. That should be an option for each VIP user to toggle and not a mandatory feature. Same with the live jams. If the person opening doesn't want non VIPs or only people they follow, there should be some sort of toggle to eliminate traffic.

I agree with the non video feature for non VIPs. As for commenting, I have met several VIPs who are very chatty with non VIPs. VIPs help lure non VIPs to become VIPs. So that I think should also be a toggle. On whether non VIPs can comment on a VIP's material. 

Also Idk if it was in this thread or another but there was talk about limiting how many users one could follow / have as followers. There are many users who like to sing but like having the fan base, who would be upset by limiting that area. A solution to that would also be to give the user control over how many people that want to follow them, and the ability like with Instagram to remove followers, to where a removed user can no longer follow the user who removed them. 

I agree a toggle switch is the perfect plan.  I don't have a person problem with non VIP joins, but if I were a woman I'd want it. 

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RockMeSlowly
2 hours ago, yaunti said:

Unfortunately, There are some users who join to get famous and to build a fan base, and then sing secondly. For those VIP users, if made mandatory, your suggestion would force them to use the app in ways they didn't attend to. Giving users the option to control if non VIP users can comment, message and join would be a better solution. (It stops smule from losing money by mandating.) It will still cause people to get VIP if they want to join people who have turned on those restrictions.

There are VIP users who treat smile as a business. I've come across several, mainly those from overseas who are trying to become recording stars.

I've seen 20 year old "marketing professionals" on Twitter offering follows and promoting other accounts that clearly come from his company.

When it comes down to it, the app is going to sink or swim by having good signers who want to actively engage with each other.  They serve as BOTH clients and defacto sales people.

The app should be built to protect that element. 

Essentially, Starmaker is a way more stable app, but a lack of talented singers makes it not worth it.  Smule shouldn't get too comfortable.

Edited by RockMeSlowly
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RockMeSlowly
2 hours ago, yaunti said:

Unfortunately, There are some users who join to get famous and to build a fan base, and then sing secondly. For those VIP users, if made mandatory, your suggestion would force them to use the app in ways they didn't attend to. Giving users the option to control if non VIP users can comment, message and join would be a better solution. (It stops smule from losing money by mandating.) It will still cause people to get VIP if they want to join people who have turned on those restrictions.

There are VIP users who treat smile as a business. I've come across several, mainly those from overseas who are trying to become recording stars.

 

2 hours ago, yaunti said:

True and they've been ramping up their spamming lately. I have reported about a dozen accounts over the past week

I know a guy with 30K followers and roughly half his count are fakes.

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1 minute ago, RockMeSlowly said:

 

I know a guy with 30K followers and roughly half his count are fakes.

That would not surprise me any. When I get followed by an account with hundreds of follows with zero recordings I report them for that reason. I don't get wanting fake follows. The number of followers one has does little as far as the app goes if I'm correct. The only reason I could think that one would want that many fake followers, is if they were trying to profit from their account.

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RockMeSlowly
8 minutes ago, yaunti said:

That would not surprise me any. When I get followed by an account with hundreds of follows with zero recordings I report them for that reason. I don't get wanting fake follows. The number of followers one has does little as far as the app goes if I'm correct. The only reason I could think that one would want that many fake followers, is if they were trying to profit from their account.

Well, it gives people credibility within the community on the app, for better or worse. 

The fake accounts look real, until you click on enough and see the pattern. A "marketing firm" has teams dedicated to creating an account, joining a bunch of songs all the same day to make them look real and following clients.

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6 hours ago, RockMeSlowly said:

 

I know a guy with 30K followers and roughly half his count are fakes.

Well . I have complained about a verified singer on the platform who has created thousands of fake profiles to follow himself

 No action is taken . Smule doesn’t care about fake profiles as it still adds to their user base. They will only freeze/block the fake profile if they find it is being used to harass/abuse people . Also they do not do any investigation as I suppose it is not worth their time. 

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_RamKrish1012

Thank all members for your comments on this Topic. Some clarity has Surfaced as a Result. I agree with "Rock me Slowly" that any one who subscribes to Smule to become a VIP member will not want to harass any one and lose VIP membership.. What if Non VIP members are allowed to join and sing with anyone VIP or Non-Vip but for a very limited time only ( I know their Invites expire in One day too) Now what if NON VIP Members are not allowed to POST any personal messages to VIP members. I get many new followers and on checking to see their profile shows no recording no invites One Favourite that they promote and with few followers but following 1000 people. If such fake members are not allowed to post Personal messages, there is not much they can do to Harass other VIP members. Tell me I am wrong or else lets us all make this suggestion to Smule Zen desk. Perhaps if we get a lawyer to word it and every one does a cut and paste and each one of us asks all our followers to do the same, this could become a mass movement that will make Smule SIT UP AND LISTEN

Cheers

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RockMeSlowly
On 12/25/2020 at 3:25 AM, singhna said:

Well . I have complained about a verified singer on the platform who has created thousands of fake profiles to follow himself

 No action is taken . Smule doesn’t care about fake profiles as it still adds to their user base. They will only freeze/block the fake profile if they find it is being used to harass/abuse people . Also they do not do any investigation as I suppose it is not worth their time. 

I'd go so far to say they've possibly created the fake accounts themselves.

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RockMeSlowly
On 12/25/2020 at 4:16 AM, _RamKrish1012 said:

Thank all members for your comments on this Topic. Some clarity has Surfaced as a Result. I agree with "Rock me Slowly" that any one who subscribes to Smule to become a VIP member will not want to harass any one and lose VIP membership.. What if Non VIP members are allowed to join and sing with anyone VIP or Non-Vip but for a very limited time only ( I know their Invites expire in One day too) Now what if NON VIP Members are not allowed to POST any personal messages to VIP members. I get many new followers and on checking to see their profile shows no recording no invites One Favourite that they promote and with few followers but following 1000 people. If such fake members are not allowed to post Personal messages, there is not much they can do to Harass other VIP members. Tell me I am wrong or else lets us all make this suggestion to Smule Zen desk. Perhaps if we get a lawyer to word it and every one does a cut and paste and each one of us asks all our followers to do the same, this could become a mass movement that will make Smule SIT UP AND LISTEN

Cheers

Honestly, ANY of the suggestions is better than what we have now.  The existing system feels like it was put together by really young guys who see the app and it's use in a far more superficial way than it's paid users 

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55 minutes ago, RockMeSlowly said:

I'd go so far to say they've possibly created the fake accounts themselves.

You are spot on. This person I am talking about actually runs a youtube channel demonstrating how to make unlimited social media profiles on various platforms. He claims to run it for "educational purposes". As I said earlier Smule can trace these fake id's and people who use them if they really want to do it. 

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_RamKrish1012

Let these weasels create any number of fake accounts, they cannot do much if they are not allowed to post messages to any one on Smule. Either Promoting themselves or putting some one down or spreading rumours. I will write to Zen Desk and see what transpires.

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17 hours ago, _RamKrish1012 said:

Let these weasels create any number of fake accounts, they cannot do much if they are not allowed to post messages to any one on Smule. Either Promoting themselves or putting some one down or spreading rumours. I will write to Zen Desk and see what transpires.

Sounds good. This, combined with taking an action on real people who are out there to scam unsuspecting users would make Smule a safer place.

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_RamKrish1012

As an aside, my wife is crazy about dogs and has an Instagram Page for our Golden Labrador called Bailey for some one who had a hundred or so followers suddenly Bailey had over 10,000 followers. I was curious and asked my wife what was going on and she said "Oh I have to confess, I paid USD $500 to get Bailey this number of Followers". I was not a Happy Man but she had blown the money and it was water under the Bridge. My suspicion is there are similar operators helping Smule VIP members get thousands of followers, and these operators are using Fake ids and switch Smule Membership name each and every day to avoid detection. These Fakes have never sung a song or sent an invite have only one Invite that they promote to thousands of unsuspecting Smule VIP members. The Only way to stop such scum is to "NOT ALLOW NON VIP MEMBERS TO POST PERSONAL MESSAGES TO VIP MEMBERS. People who subscribe to be a VIP member will not tarnish their Image and be blocked or Banned

Edited by _RamKrish1012
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