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Why did Smule go back to deleting joins of people who delete their accounts?

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Stellaluna

So, a while back when anybody would delete their account, all of the music including anything they had joined or anybody who had joined them, was deleted.

Then, within the past year or so,  I noticed when people would delete their accounts, Smule left all of the joins people had done with the person that had deleted their account, which I thought was a nice thing for them to do.  And, as many of my friends have done, once they decided to come back to Smule, every bit of music they had done came back as well-and we’re talking years of music restored to their account. 

Well, somebody at Smule HQ must’ve made the decision to go back to the way they used to do it. A friend of mine recently deleted their account, and every piece of music they had ever done or anyone had ever joined, has been wiped out. 
 

I’m  sure that at some point this particular friend will return, and it will be interesting to see whether or not all of their music is restored as well. 
 

I’m  wondering why Smule went back to the old standard of wiping everything clean??

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sdr
4 hours ago, Stellaluna said:

I’m  wondering why Smule went back to the old standard of wiping everything clean??

I think it's a good idea to delete their recordings with their account. In smule the joins are the essential part of an account and if a person wants to delete and that way disappear from smule, it is better they allow it and remove everything connected with that account. It respects that person's privacy, in my opinion. 😁

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opentype

I agree. Once you delete your account, you would also loose access to these songs completely. So you would never be able to change you mind and delete them later. You couldn’t even easily prove to Smule that those were once your songs. So, having them deleted with your account is the only way to do it. 

If someone wants to leave Smule but keep their songs online, they could just stop using Smule and delete the app.  

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Stellaluna

Most of the people I know that are deleting their accounts are doing so because they had some sort of drama go down, so they use it as a tool to get back at whomever they had the drama with. Immature? You betcha. I’ve seen this happen half dozen times, and they always come back after a few months, with all their songs in tact. So they were kind of using the delete option as a tool of sorts– they knew  that everything would  be restored once they came back. Until now. 😝  That’ll teach ‘em, huh? LOL

I was just kinda miffed because I had done a song with this person, and came up with my own unique harmonies that I really liked, and now it’s gone. I mean, I worked on that song for awhile, and all that’s gone now. 😕 That’s what bugs me. 

I do wish Smule had a “freeze your account” option instead of just delete option. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Vuong13

This depends on how one defines who own the song.  Does it belong to the opener .. make some sense.  Or does it belong to the joiner ... who listen and decided to join in.. also make sense because that person actually make the decision .. whereas the opener just open... If it belongs to the joiner then how about joining group song ...

Whatever Smule decided, it's a shared ownership, and deletion based on one will make lots of unhappy subscribers.  Smule typically assign it to the opener, but that's just a programming convenience

For me I would either stop joining or block a person if my join is deleted without any personal explanation.  I've also seen those kind of drama played out.  Hihi just stay away and happy Smuling elsewhere

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opentype
2 hours ago, Vuong13 said:

 Does it belong to the opener .. make some sense.  Or does it belong to the joiner ...

Both. Both of their voices or even faces are in it. 

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GEWOK
27 minutes ago, opentype said:

Both. Both of their voices or even faces are in it. 

 

It follows then that deleting a shared song needs to have the condition satisfied for both users?  i.e. only delete when the other account is deleted as well.   If I join some songs on an account that is being deleted, I should expect Smule not to touch it since I'm still a current subscriber :).  Same with all the songs that the deleted account had joined on my OC?

Granted, currently, any user could freely delete any songs he/she is a part of (except group) any time without notifications, That's a personal choice and they will take whatever social blow back for that 'inconsiderate' action.  But for Smule to take that as a default action is pretty bad.

(Qualify - I don't know if what the original post claimed is true - have not seen it myself - but just assume that's the case - "all of the music including anything they had joined or anybody who had joined them, was deleted.")

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opentype
1 hour ago, GEWOK said:

It follows then that deleting a shared song needs to have the condition satisfied for both users? 

Not really. You can’t force someone’s activity to stay online just because one party doesn’t want it gone. Technically, Smule could regenerate the “duet” and strip everything from one person while keeping the other part there. But since that is completely pointless, the privacy wish of one person outweighs the wish to have the duet stay online.

And that is exactly what I expect as user. I absolutely need the assurance that I can remove songs. Just like I know I can remove a Tweet or a Facebook picture. If I would know that I wouldn’t be able to delete duets at all or only with the consent of others, it would completely change my enjoyment with the app and reduce the number of duets I upload. I might stop using the app altogether. 

Every collaboration I love, I just download as audio or video file. That way, it is never lost when the other person leaves the platform. Sure, having the performance also on the Smule platform would be even better, but that doesn’t outweigh the negative aspects mentioned before. 

 

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GEWOK
1 hour ago, opentype said:

the privacy wish of one person outweighs the wish to have the duet stay online.

If you put it like that, I would agree.  However, the comparison I made is the wish of one person to destroy shared/common things that the other also own.   Then the 'outweight' is more of a personal judgement.

1 hour ago, opentype said:

And that is exactly what I expect as user. I absolutely need the assurance that I can remove songs. Just like I know I can remove a Tweet or a Facebook picture. If I would know that I wouldn’t be able to delete duets at all or only with the consent of others, it would completely change my enjoyment with the app and reduce the number of duets I upload. I might stop using the app altogether. 

On this point I do agree.   So I have no problem with user deleting it - intentionally.  You made that decision, and you are OK with the other possibly being upset with it.  But I'd assume most would at least try to notify the other person.   What I disagree is Smule does that by itself.   So I make a contrary argument.  If I know Smule would do that, then it "would completely change my enjoyment with the app and reduce the number of duets I upload. I might stop using the app altogether. "

1 hour ago, opentype said:

Every collaboration I love, I just download as audio or video file. That way, it is never lost when the other person leaves the platform. Sure, having the performance also on the Smule platform would be even better, but that doesn’t outweigh the negative aspects mentioned before. 

I'd do that too.  On this point, you do have an advantage on other users since it probably much easier/faster for you to download unlimited number of songs too.   But, why do I need to even do that?  I'm a subscriber paying Smule for the enjoyment of able to sing and listen on the Smule platform.   Is Smule only proving the upload so I could only hear once/limited time?  They should clearly specify it in their service agreement then -  "I might stop using the app altogether".

Anyway, Smule does own our recording, so yes I download - but I do disagree if that's what Smule is doing.

Cheers

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TheMajesticM

When you ask for a deletion Smule should respect it. I asked for a deletion on one of my accounts and some of the recordings are still there 🫣 Oh well …

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Stellaluna

It would be nice if Smule had a checklist or something that you fill out when deleting your account. They could ask 1. Delete all songs. 2. Delete all songs except for those that were joined by others. 3. Delete only songs and joins that are on video. 

Seems like a simple thing to do. And I’m sure many of us that have put time and effort into a song, would appreciate the consideration. 
 

In my experience, when someone deletes their account, it’s because someone or something has made them upset, and 90% of the time, they return within a short period of time. So, instead of deleting your entire account and all your songs with it, it would be great to just be able to put your account in “non-active/dark mode”, where you would not be engaging, and it would appear you’ve left, (your profile/page is not visible), etc., but your songs remain. And you can decide when you want to return to active participation.

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My2CentsWorth

When one requests their account to be deleted,  it is understood that all data be deleted. Why would one want some parts of their data retained when they don't want to use the account anymore? 

Smule makes it clear via email that once you delete the account, it is irreversible. They do, however, give you a choice to reconsider and respond to that email should you change your mind and want to retain your account. 

Group songs are the last to be deleted, but it does eventually. So let's say a song comprised of 7 singers would have that one singer's part deleted eventually (sometimes months after the acct is removed) .Song would sound weird but that is how it is. 

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TheMajesticM
On 8/27/2022 at 1:03 AM, Stellaluna said:

It would be nice if Smule had a checklist or something that you fill out when deleting your account.

I requested deletion of my former accounts and I had forgotten to save one of the cutest duets with my niece so yes I wish there would have been the options you suggested. 

Edited by TheMajesticM
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Stellaluna
23 hours ago, My2CentsWorth said:

When one requests their account to be deleted,  it is understood that all data be deleted. Why would one want some parts of their data retained when they don't want to use the account anymore? 

Smule makes it clear via email that once you delete the account, it is irreversible. They do, however, give you a choice to reconsider and respond to that email should you change your mind and want to retain your account. 

Answer to your first question: out of consideration to those that have joined you. What harm is there in allowing someone that has joined you the opportunity to keep the recording? When the account is deleted, the person’s page is gone, etc., nobody is able to contact them or anything, so I don’t get what the big deal is if some of their duets remain. 
 

Can you elaborate on the account deletion process? I’ve never deleted my account, so I don’t know the steps that Smule takes. You mentioned that they “give you a choice to reconsider and respond to the email should you change your mind….”  How long do they give you to change your mind before they delete everything and it is irreversible?

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My2CentsWorth
8 hours ago, Stellaluna said:

Answer to your first question: out of consideration to those that have joined you. What harm is there in allowing someone that has joined you the opportunity to keep the recording? When the account is deleted, the person’s page is gone, etc., nobody is able to contact them or anything, so I don’t get what the big deal is if some of their duets remain. 
 

 

There is a choice for one to save duets onto their phone.  No one knows for sure if the like of the duet is mutual. So by all means save what you like if you like. Most times people who delete their account have valid reasons and would prefer not to have their recordings left behind.

8 hours ago, Stellaluna said:

 
 

Can you elaborate on the account deletion process? I’ve never deleted my account, so I don’t know the steps that Smule takes. You mentioned that they “give you a choice to reconsider and respond to the email should you change your mind….”  How long do they give you to change your mind before they delete everything and it is irreversible?

Deletion of account is via smule help desk. You have to submit a form and they will email you to ask if you are sure you want to delete your account.

You have 1 week to reply to the email should you decide to change your mind. Otherwise the deletion process starts and you lose access to the account.
 

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My2CentsWorth

And to reply your last question, once you have confirmed you want the account deleted, or you don't respond to the email to say you want to change your mind, it is assumed that you want your account gone, and that choice is not reversible. 

You also cannot use your old handle name should you want to sign up for a new smule account.

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Stellaluna
11 hours ago, My2CentsWorth said:

And to reply your last question, once you have confirmed you want the account deleted, or you don't respond to the email to say you want to change your mind, it is assumed that you want your account gone, and that choice is not reversible. 

So, once the email is sent to confirm that you want to delete your account, and you actually change your mind and opt to keep it, how long is it before your account is back up and running? 

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My2CentsWorth

 You have 7 days to reply to that email if you wish to delete or keep  your account.  During the 7 days that you don't do anything, you still have access to your account.  

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Stellaluna

 

5 hours ago, My2CentsWorth said:

 You have 7 days to reply to that email if you wish to delete or keep  your account. 

Yes, I understand that, I guess I wasn’t being clear: If during the 7 days,  I reply that I want to keep my account,  it just continues to remain active, correct? 
Very weird, because again, I’ve had a friend that has deleted his account multiple times, but has always come back 1-2 months later, and everything of his was restored as if he had never left. 

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My2CentsWorth
4 hours ago, Stellaluna said:

 

Yes, I understand that, I guess I wasn’t being clear: If during the 7 days,  I reply that I want to keep my account,  it just continues to remain active, correct? 
 

Yes that is correct. 

4 hours ago, Stellaluna said:


Very weird, because again, I’ve had a friend that has deleted his account multiple times, but has always come back 1-2 months later, and everything of his was restored as if he had never left. 

Unless they have changed the deletion rules. 

Some don't delete,  they just remove their profile pic and stop singing. Or leave it as is and come back as and when. 

Why bother with deleting multiple times when one is going to come back anyway?

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  • 2 weeks later...
DuetWithAlli

Here’s my two cents … hehe. Although I have switched accounts fairly often over the years, I have never deleted an account. If someone wishes to have an account deleted, the reason must be pretty serious, and that person should be able to expect everything associated with the account to be deleted, including all recordings.

I’ve had a couple of instances where people deleted all recordings we had made together. It hurt because their intentions were to hurt me, but I forgave and forgot, and even sang with them again. Now one of them has a suspended account, and I can’t go to his page, but I’ve found that I can still access our recordings by searching our usernames together. I assume that if he had requested account deletion, the recordings would be gone. Maybe that’s the difference?

I have gone back and deleted recordings from years ago to clear out one of my accounts, and I’m sure no one noticed or cared. But I only deleted my own joins. My old OCs, I made private. That way, I’m not deleting someone else’s work, while still hiding all previous recordings on my profile from public view. 

It would be nice to have other options besides permanent account deletion, as @Stellalunahas suggested. Like having the option to temporarily deactivate your account. That would be better than having to take time away or switch accounts when you’ve got too much going on.

There are many reasons recordings can disappear: the original Smule recording is deleted by the other user, the other user’s account has been deleted, the track you used is deleted by Smule for copyright reasons or removed by the uploader, the uploader’s account has been deleted, etc. 

Any recordings that mean a lot to you, you should save to your device as stated by opentype and My2Cents. This ensures that you can have the recordings as long as you wish.

And @My2CentsWorththank you for sharing the info about account deletion. I’ve always wondered how the process works.

 

Edited by DuetWithAlli
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Stellaluna

Well said. 😊

Going forward, I’ll make sure to save any recordings that have special meaning to me. 👍🏻
 

Also, I’ve noticed that it takes Smule about 1 month or so to 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺 delete someone’s account, so when it’s in “suspended” status, it means it hasn’t been fully deleted yet, and you can access OC’s and such that you’ve done with the them. 

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My2CentsWorth
On 9/12/2022 at 2:40 AM, DuetWithAlli said:

  

I’ve had a couple of instances where people deleted all recordings we had made together. It hurt because their intentions were to hurt me, but I forgave and forgot, and even sang with them again. Now one of them has a suspended account, and I can’t go to his page, but I’ve found that I can still access our recordings by searching our usernames together. I assume that if he had requested account deletion, the recordings would be gone. Maybe that’s the difference?

 

, .

 

When one has confirmed they want their account deleted, one would lose access to their own account. They will see,,as you do, that the account is suspended.

During this time, others can still access the songs via searching by usernames, like what you did. This is the time to download songs you want to keep,if you hadn't already done so.   

Smule takes awhile (up to a month or more) to delete all recordings done by the person. Group songs are the last to be deleted. The deleted layer makes the group song sound weird 🤣

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TheMajesticM

All of you making comments that users delete accounts to revenge someone does not make sense to me. I have deleted an account and it hurt me to lose my recordings but it was not to intentionally hurt anyone. It was to keep my life peaceful. I was harassed by a pure delusional idiot on the app and was bullied to delete it. As you can tell the deletion of that account has still left a sting. So having to delete my account hurt me most of all. Had I to do it over… no, I would not have done it. I played right into the monster’s hands. But there are far worse things in life and I returned and I associate with what I refer to as the good people of Smule and there are good people on the app. 

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Stellaluna

Well, it’s good to know you’re not as immature as the people that delete their account for revenge purposes.
I’m sorry you had a bad experience with someone that ended with you deleting your account. It’s sad that all it takes is one person to ruin a good thing. I’m happy, though, that you came back and are now associating with decent folks. 😊

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